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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:48 am 
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BigJim wrote:
Not sure about the drive current of the SMC-12 but if you are using 4 switch machines why not drive the other three of them with the DPDT switch in the first one. This would give you an effective 6PDT switch to use for the other functions at no cost.
My SMC-12 is driven by a computer program responding to button pushes (or SPDT momentary switches on some older panels). It'd work. I use two of the Tortoises' points to switch frogs and get direction indication for the program, but there are two others. Your method of getting 4 sets of points synchronized is quite slick. You may have a bit of a problem with the extra force required to bend the rail on a Fast-Tracks double crossover though. It might be just enough to stall a Tortoise. I'm afraid that's one of those "you just have to try it" things. Of course, you could use the hinge option and then it'd be the same as a commercial turnout with regard to the force required. I just hate hinges...

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:42 pm 
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FWIW, I physically looked at Big Jim's linkage last night and it appears to provide plenty of pressure for a single Tortoise to run one of our double crossovers without hinges. It actually runs fairly fast on 12V. Quite slick, really. He's got Z-bends in .030" welding wire to adjust the run of each set of points individually.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:22 pm 
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roadkill_97006 wrote:
The reversing module is totally automatic but only works with DCC. You just connect one output from the module to each rail and it flips the polarity instantly when it sees a short. The Tortoises each have 2 sets of points. I used one set each from 2 Tortoises. You hook the normal "right rail" to one point, the "left" rail to the other and as the Tortoise moves, the 3rd connection is switched to whichever output you need. They're break before make. Hooked up properly, the wire from the Tortoise to the turnout frog will always be correct.


Jim, if I understand you correctly, you are using 2 Tortoise to switch all 4 points of the double crossover?

Regarding the wiring of the autoreverse module, if I refer to your colored diagram for diverted route that you posted, one of the output wire from the module would be wired to each the CYAN colored area? Where do the other wire go to.

Sorry for the long question, I,m just rying to figure it out.

Thanks

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:48 pm 
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rockisland wrote:
roadkill_97006 wrote:
The reversing module is totally automatic but only works with DCC. You just connect one output from the module to each rail and it flips the polarity instantly when it sees a short. The Tortoises each have 2 sets of points. I used one set each from 2 Tortoises. You hook the normal "right rail" to one point, the "left" rail to the other and as the Tortoise moves, the 3rd connection is switched to whichever output you need. They're break before make. Hooked up properly, the wire from the Tortoise to the turnout frog will always be correct.


Jim, if I understand you correctly, you are using 2 Tortoise to switch all 4 points of the double crossover?
Correct. Each Tortoise takes care of flipping two frogs to match the rails the train will cross. The green area would be all switched by one Tortoise, including two frogs. The pink area is switched by the other Tortoise, getting the other 2 frogs. The business about the red/blue areas is to show which rail (red or blue) should be connected to the green (or pink) area when the Tortoise was run in that direction. Using the "upper right" turnout as an example, note that the top rails are blue and the bottom rails are red, so if the Tortoises are diverted, then you'd want the common Tortoise point's polarity to match the blue because wheels will pass from the blue to the frog, but if they're straight through then you'd want the common point on the Tortoise to be connected to the red.
Quote:

Regarding the wiring of the autoreverse module, if I refer to your colored diagram for diverted route that you posted, one of the output wire from the module would be wired to each the CYAN colored area? Where do the other wire go to.
The yellow area and the cyan area are the same. One of the two wires would go to one yellow/cyan area and the other wire to the other. Sorry to be so confusing about that.
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Sorry for the long question, I,m just rying to figure it out.

Sorry to be so confusing... I know what I meant, but I couldn't come up with a clearer way to show it. If you still have questions, please ask. And remember, this WILL ONLY WORK IF BOTH MAIN LINES ARE WIRED THE SAME, i.e. electrically parallel. And all 4 turnouts must run together!!!

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:06 pm 
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Thanks Jim for the reply. Boy these are tricky to wire.

Paul


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:27 pm 
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rockisland wrote:
Thanks Jim for the reply. Boy these are tricky to wire.

Paul

Yes, they're possibly the toughest ones, because of all the variables. If you have any questions left, you could call me 8-5 Pacific, 7 days a week, at 888-252-3895 (Fast-Tracks) - punch in my extension 709 as soon as you hear the answering system start to talk. If I'm not there, please leave a message and I'll call you back on our dime.

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Hi Guys,

As for driving three switch machines from the DPDT of one; be carefull of the amps needed. Digitrax stuff won't even drive one of my 1960's vintage Kemtrons without an intermediary relay let alone three more.

The AR1 works beautifully for DCC. I have not found a solution better than a switchman to throw a DPDT polarity control.

Lew


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Lew Wagar wrote:
Hi Guys,

As for driving three switch machines from the DPDT of one; be carefull of the amps needed. Digitrax stuff won't even drive one of my 1960's vintage Kemtrons without an intermediary relay let alone three moreLew

:shock: On Kemtron, NJI Tenshodo and similar switch machines, the inrush current can exceed 40 AMPS for a few milliseconds. A Tortoise is going to peak at 30 MILLIAMPS, or .00075 of the current. The Peco machines also are power hogs, just like any other solenoid machine. You should only consider the use of the stall-motor types like the Tortoises with delicate electronic control systems.

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:05 am 
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Sorry ro resurrect an old thread gents. The DC wiring calls for a 12 volt really. I was wondering if this little guy would be sufficient?

http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Produ ... ct=2750249


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:24 am 
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Location: East Texas - USA
Yes, the control of the relay is only 60ma, and the contacts can handle 5a - more than sufficient. Good find at a reasonable price. Do search around for a socket base and you have a nice easy to maintain system - but I wouldn't pay too much premium for a socket - soldering to the contacts would be OK with some care and the unit should last longer than your life.

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-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:59 am 
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Bump.

I figured instead of starting a new thread I'd just post up my question on this one. It follows the same lines, just only half of a cross over in this case.

Here is what I'm dealing with.

Image

Sorry for the crappy MS Paint pic. The frogs are in black and I hope the gaps are clear enough. Green and Red are the colours that I chose for the track buss wiring. I am using Tortoise Machines to control the two t.o's. Am I correct in assuming that I should be able to use the secondary internal switch in the Tortoise to switch the polarity of the frogs on the crossing? Realistically, you'd only have one loco using the crossing at a time. So as long as ensure that both t.o's are wired so that the polarity is correct when they are thrown, then I should be good to go. Right?

I think I tend to over think this stuff too much.[/img]


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Location: East Texas - USA
If you should ever throw both turnouts at the same time, you'll end up with a short. I'd suggest each turnout only control one crossing frog. In the non-crossing position the controlled frog would be set for the opposing turnout route such that with one turnout thrown, then it sets its' frog for crossing and the other frog stays at crossing (since it' set to straight).

This way, you'll not have a dead short and proper operation would only occur with one turnout thrown to the crossing. It's a bit of fail safe. I you have trouble visualizing the connections - let me know - I can colorize a two (or four) position graphic that could help.

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-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:44 pm 
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Thanks. That was the idea. I just wanted to make sure it would work.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:16 am 
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I got it wired up and working last night Ed. Thanks for confirming my ideas as to how it needed to be done. Locos roll through fine now in both directions. And I like the "safety feature" if one the t.o.'s is left thrown in the wrong position.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:24 am 
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Congratulations. It's not all that hard to reason out the wiring - especially when using colorized templates. Sometimes, like with a double crossover, the scheme does require asserting route selection and control to get it right.

With DCC, one can have the option of auto polarity changes electronically, but usually a simple fail safe method will be more robust.

_________________
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


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