Fast Tracks

Model Railroading Discussion Forums

Return To The Fast Tracks Website

The Fast Tracks discussion forums have been closed. Click Here for more information.

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:46 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:06 am
Posts: 3
I'm new to the model train hobby and very new to the fast track system, so new in fact that I don't even have a template YET, but I am very excited to get one and start building turn outs. I' confused about Frog Juicers, and what they do and if they are absolutely necessary.

So here is what I want to do. Build a layout in Ho scale that will be run with a MRC prodigy squared DCC controller. I'm going to get a FT #6 turnout template and start building TO's but I'm not sure if I need to use a frog juicer on these TO's I make.

Why would a FT TO need a juiced frog when a Atlas TO doesn't?

Dose the Juicer just make it easier to wire the TO or is it a must?

TIA
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:36 pm
Posts: 2
Ed,

I'll give you the quick answer first. No, you don't need the Frog Juicer for your turnouts. But, you will need some way to change the polarity of the frogs on your turnouts. When you wire a single piece of track, one rail will be positive and one will be negative. However, if you look at a turnout frog, you will see that rails of opposite polarity meet coming into and going out of the frog. This allows for a short. But electrically isolating the frog by making the four cuts in the rail at both ends of the frog allows you to determine the polarity of the frog depending on the routing of the turnout. There are a variety of ways of switching the polarity of the frog. The juicer is just one way. I used one on my old layout and will probably use them on my new layout.

markalan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:06 am
Posts: 3
Ok I found this article, it looks like if I build my TO's like the 1st diagram I'll be ok with out a frog juicer, dose that sound right?

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

Thanks
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 365
Location: East Texas - USA
Ed,

You will note in the wire4dcc site, that Alan has a SPDT switch controlled by the point throw bar that wires the power routing to the frog area. You can do this with contact points from your turnout throw mechanism or by micro switches. You do NOT want power routing from the points - never plan or expect the points to make the electrical contact - it is very unreliable. DCC is less forgiving of bad contact and very quick shorts.

Some will leave the frog electrically isolated and rely on the equipment to have longer wheel base pickup that spans the frog dead spot. A lot depends on the equipment you run and the degree of reliability you want. Ideal is to have the frog wired and the electrical potential switched by action of the points and/or an electronic solution such as the Frog Juicer.

-ed-

_________________
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:06 am
Posts: 3
Ok I think I have a enough of an understanding to make a decision as to what I'd like to do.

I run Atlas modern diesels so I'm going to try to run a dead frog, my thinking is that because of the longer wheel base and the multiple wheel pick up I'll be ok, but if I get the slightest issue with losing power/sound thru the TO I'll switch to a powered frog.

Thanks you guys!
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:32 am
Posts: 41
A dead frog won't work on a hand-laid turnout. The minute your loco hits the frog it will go dead. You need to power it in some form or another, either through a mechanical switch of electronic (HFJ). Just relaying my experience on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:18 pm
Posts: 84
Is there a full-colour wiring diagram for a simple turnout (switch). The b&w diagrams that came with my hex frog juicer were for higher-end operations. I would like to know as well if the bus lines still need to be soldered to the outside rails?

_________________
"Life is about learning"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 365
Location: East Texas - USA
sambear,

The hex frog juicer is for wiring and controlling the ISOLATED frog. It allows the sensing of needed polarity and automatically fixing the frog polarity (based on power short if set wrong). The track power bus is wired to the input of the hex frog juicer, and the six available circuits go to six separate isolated frogs. Since the power and short sensing is performed by the hex frog juicer on each of the six circuits, it is not really important which of the power bus wires goes where into the juicer. (It is important you have consistency with the track and turnout wiring from the bus to the rails). NOTE: you must be using electrically isolated frogs when using a hex frog juicer .

The power for all the rails of the turnout (and track to and from) still require powering from the track power bus. Yes , I'd recommend soldering the rails connections (and the frog wire connection as well).

Color wiring diagrams are on the Tam Valley Depot web site:
http://tamvalleydepot.com/products/hexfrogjuicer.html

-ed-

_________________
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:18 pm
Posts: 84
Thanks again, Ed...

If I use the Hex Juicer for a double-crossover, it will take four of the six wires, With two wire openings left, can I use them for two other turnouts?

_________________
"Life is about learning"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:48 am
Posts: 365
Location: East Texas - USA
The six can be spread out anywhere. They are individually controlled and independent in their configuration. Just remember to use them on isolated frogs. The other systems auto reverser units are made for reversing loops, the frog juicer is made for a single point sensing and energizing.

-ed-

_________________
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group