Fast Tracks

Have you ever considered making HOn3 #4-5-6 Stub switches? also the #4 stub "Y"?
these are the fixtures I would grab up in a second as well as the rest of the Narrow
Gauge community of HOn3,Sn3 & On3 would if they new you made them available.
I watch the sales on E-Bay and buy a lot of HOn3 equipment. I have noticed that the
Stub switches go for more than $100.00 U.S. Dollars for a pair so if the Fast Tracks
fixture was available you would be even busier than you are now. In fact 3 stub "Y"
switches sold for $135.00 each this past weekend.
Just a thought or a future wish & something for you to consider.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!

I take it Railway Engineering's HOn3 turnouts don't fit the bill?

There is a big difference between normal Narrow gauge switches and Narrow Gauge
STUB switches. Normal turnouts be they standard gauge or Narrow Gauge have
switch points that move to direct the train wheels to go onto the desired track. Where
Stub Switches don't have switch points the actual approaching track rails move
from one set of tracks to the next. so a HOn3 #4 stub requires 1/2 the space a
regular HOn3 #4 switch would require. Same with #5,#6 & 3 way turnouts Also Duel Gauge are much shorter.
You will never find these on a present Day Main line or in a yard but They were widely used on
Mountain Logging and Mining and pre 1950 American Narrow gauge Railroads such
as found on the Rio Grand Southern, the Denver & Rio Grand Western and the MA &
PAW Narrow gauge railroads to name just a few.
I already own Both #6 HOn3 Duel Gauge Fixtures and have figured out how easy
it is to Transform these to Stub Operation but the Narrow Gauge 3 way is configured
differently than The 3 way that is offered by anybody including Fast Tracks Fixture.
The Stub 3 way is not staggered in that all 3 directions start at the same place.
Below you will see how I changed a Fast Tracks set of duel gauge HO HOn3 switches
to Stub operation. you will need the PDF reader to see this file.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!

Then Dan, you're saying that Railway Engineering stub swtiches (three way and standard) are not correct?

They are assembled withc PC ties but you have to add your own ties for the rest of the turnout.

The Railway Engineering 3 way HOn3 stub turnouts are the equilateral style. Their 'regular' HOn3 stub turnouts (wye and #6) have the correct stub lead lengths.

These are fully completed 'skeletons' PC board ties (minimum necessary) and ready to lay on you own laid wooden ties. They do use the lengthened points tie as a simulated header tie arrangement. The rail heads geometry are excellent and the flangeways are narrower - but fully functional (look great). They function well with correctly gauged wheelsets set to the NMRA wheel gage (but the track gage is narrowed to provide the extra reliability).

If you need only a very few stubs (and only one or two wye) then they are very cost effective.

See: http://www.railwayeng.com/turnouts.htm

-ed-

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-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.

would you say enough stub switches to build 9 yards and 14 city's with dozens of sidings on a RR designed to fit in my new 36 foot X 60 foot Model Railroad room is cost effective to buy RTR or do you think building close to 200 Stubs would be cheaper? I have already built 30 duel gauge turnouts for the Duel gauge yards other
than the 9 Narrow Gauge yards and have many more to go.

Please send a link to Railway Engineering I can't seem to find anything by that Name I do buy a lot of track rail from Micro Engineering but the only Railway engineering is for Books and Mags.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!

Anytime you build more than 4 to 6 identical turnouts, a fixture would be more cost effective than ANY RTR. Some RTR are simply prohibitive in cost effectiveness in any quantity. (Actually just handlaying is the most cost effective). Once you've built a number of turnouts, the techniques are easy to migrate with gauges to 'roll your own' using templates or just any proper geometry lay out.

The Railway Engineering link is included in the post above. (Base site: http://www.railwayeng.com/ ) It's owned and run by a one man supplier, Stephen Hatch, he's been around for decades, advertises in NG&SLG often. Has and excellent handlaying tutorial on his web site. Supplies the two point "ROLLEE" gauges. Has some very fine hand throw target style points operating controls. He does subscribe to the strict MIN track gage and even a little narrower for reliability camp. There's no extra 'allowances' and you HAVE to have the wheel sets gauged correctly, otherwise the results are supperior operations, reliable, and in the "FINE' scale category. He's been the original source for 'make your own hand made spikes from spring steel wire' for over 15 years.

-ed-

_________________
-ed mccamey-
COSLAR RR - http://www.coslar.us/
NMRA Standards and Conformance Department
PROTO & FINE Scale Coordinator
I estimate I have about 5 pounds of coupler springs somewhere in the vicinity of my workbench.

Thanks for the link and the information. I think I'll continue building my own seeing
that the HOn3 stubs are $49.00 each and the Duel gauge stubs are $59.00 each and I
can build them for about $12.00 each which was the first 30 costs. Now I figure the
Two fast track Fixtures I originally bought & all the supplies, files as well as other
equipment and tools have paid for their self 8 times over or close to that already.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!

Dan

I have a few comments about the Railway Engineering and stub turnouts in general.

First as to Railway Engineering, I know Steve Hatch a little through our mutual association in Sn3. Steve is a great guy and his turnouts are great. The one flaw in his business is that he is a one man shop and he always has a ton of backlog. Sometimes you can wait a long, long time for delivery.

On the subject of stub turnouts. Another source of stubs is Russ Simpson. I purchased one of his stub 3 way turnouts for my layout a few months ago and the delivery was prompt and I liked the product better than the Railway Engineering product. It was a little more expensive, but for just one on the layout it was worth it.

I'm also wondering what era you are modeling on the Rio Grande and RGS. I'm not sure of the exact timing, but even on the narrow gauge, stub turnouts were eliminated quite early on. Certianly by the 20's and 30's most of the stubs were eliminated on the mainlines of the narrow gauges. A notable exception to this were the 2 3 way stubs that existed in Rico on the RGS until the very end of operations. One of these was on the main and the other the lead to the engine house. If you are modeling after 1920, I would consider reducing the number of stubs and if you are modeling after the 1940's I would eliminate all but the 3 way stubs. TOC on the other hand is a different story.

Jim McHenry

Dan

I have all 11 volumes of the RGS Story and I don't remember if there are any references to the conversion of stubs to points, but I can look at the photos and see if I can tell dates by the dates of pictures. I presume the Rio Grande would have converted before the RGS and I really don't think they would have run the larger K class engines on stubs. From Dennis O'Berrys' book on the K-27's the rail had to be upgraded to allow the 27s to operate on the various parts of the system (Marshall Pass being the first to upgrade in 1903/1904). I assume that is when the stubs would have been removed from main line service. In addition, according the O'Berry book, a portion (southern I think) of the RGS was upgraded and certified for operation of K-27s in 1923. The balance of the system followed. One might make the argument that K-27 might have been operated on trackage with stub turnouts, but I don't think stubs would be used prototypically with 28's, 36's or 37's, therefore on the main line of the Rio Grande narrow gauge system stubs would have been gone by the time of the acqusition of the K-28 class locos in the 20s

Jim

Jim I have all 12 Volumes of the RGS Story as Well as complete Volumes of the many
Different Lumber companies. mainly the biggest the new Mexico Lumber Co. which
I have reserved a 12 foot X 19 foot end of my room to model it and it requires at
least 38 Stubs alone. As far as engines they never ran heavy equipment on the
New Mexico Lumber Co mostly C-16's to C-19's and a few Shays which you will only
find a photo of #7 which was their largest Shay. To find a better collection of
photos of the New Mexico Lumber Co you will need to find a book By that name. Its
472 Pages and has around 350 Photos of the rolling stock and all the engines .
It also has photos of all the different camps and a detailed groups of Drawings and
photos of all the Buildings and the McPhee Mill (complete scale drawings and also
all the out buildings and the log pond and tracks). This book is very rare find and
cost over $200.00 for my copy.
I have something like 90 Books all about the Colorado and New Mexico Railroads
and another 200 Railroad books in my Library plus almost complete collections of
Model railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman,Model Railroading, Narrow Gauge & Short line Gazette, and many other model and prototype Railroads of all types.

I'm also building the Montezuma Lumber Company and have it planned also.
You said you have 11 of the 12 Volumes of the RGS Story so if you have volume 7
you can get a Idea of what I'm building. If you read all 12 volumes you'll get an
even get a better Idea of what My little crew of friends my son and I are trying to
build.
Then there is the D&RGW which will be Phase 3 of this Project about 5 years
from now if all my plans come together as well as my health staying good. I'll
be turning 56 this July 1st so well see what happens between now and the next 25
years/.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!

Dan

First of all, happy birthday tomorrow.

I stand corrected, there are 12 volumes of the RGS story and I have and have read all of them cover to cover. Since you are doing the logging lines along the RGS, your need for stubs is better explained. From your original post it seemed like you were doing the RGS and the D&RGW with stubs and that is what I was questioning.

Sounds like your layout will be a real empire! The logging lines along the RGS were very interesting, but I have never had the space to include any of those types of operations on a layout.

Jim

Jim
I have worked many many years collecting engines, cars, equipment, pulleys, logs,
all the keystone saw mill interiors, band saws, gang saws, littles loggers of all types
and everything else you can think of that would be needed for a logging operation.
in fact I have more than 150, 13 gallon rubber Maid square containers full of neatly
packed accessories for my railroad. In the past 16 months I have spent in excess
of $100,000.00 U.S. dollars getting ready. Two weeks ago we started work on the
Table and Frame work as well as the back drop backs just an hour after the building
was finished and received the final building inspection from the city.
Now I'm in for at least 20 years of fun (And a lot of work) maybe 40 years if I'm really
lucky. Oh remember the logging industry is only a little less than 1/8 of what I have
planned for the complete Model. Cattle & sheep, Mines, Oil and everything. I could
go on for days and Don't forget 60 some trestle Bridges and scenic Mountains from
floor to 10 foot celling. If you notice in my sig at the bottom of this page the magic
words are The "WHOLE" D&RGW And Rio Grand Southern. I may have to build a
second addition to the building but that can wait LOL.

_________________
NARROW Gauge MINDED
and Proud of it !!